S7E1 -- Ohana Guest : Billy Rickards

Billy RIckards is a veteran 515 racer that helps others to get to the finish line as an amazing crew person.  He lives Aloha, Ohana, Kokua within the Ultra Fam.  As a person who has chosen to call Hawaii home; it only makes sense that he has a strong connection to the island values.

Do you like dolphins?  Then you have even one more reason to tune in to this episode.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Dolphin Quest
• Lavaman
• Honu 70.3
• Ironman World Championships
• Ultraman World Championships
• Unstoppable: The Smart Training Method For Busy Athletes - Shangrila’s Book
• Ultraman Florida
• Ultraman Arizona
• Ultra520K Canada
• UM Canada

Shout outs and mentions in this episode:

• Susan Rickards
• Susan Smith
• Wendy Minor
• Jane Bockus (S1E4)
• Sheryl Cobb (S2E6)
• Dave Cobb (S2E6)
• Peter Lopinski
• Shangrila Rendon (S3E3)
• Chris Hague
• Keri Mandell (S6E10)
• Shane Duffy (S4E5)
• Steve Keller (S2E10)
• Gary Wang (S2E6)
• Jen Annett  (S6E9) (S6E11)
• Michelle Vesterby (S5E12)
• Dede Greisbauer (S3E13)
• Hillary Biscay (S6E1)
• Mary Latza
• Randy Latza
• Cynthia Bartus
• Vedant Nangare
• Jen McVeay (S4E4)
• Memo Tijerina 

Transcript

Larry 0:29

Today, this is going to be a Florida and Arizona relationship. And as an island resident, it is also raced and cleared many times at the World Championships. Get ready for some great advice today from this well-known Ohana member.

Dolphin Quest

Larry 0:48

Aloha, Ohana, and Kokuwa are part of the native environment of my next Ohana guest, as he lives in Kamuela, Hawaii on the big island. There he has had the opportunity to race 70.3s and five times at the Iron Man World Championships. So Natalie was introduced to the Ultraman world. He has spent many years crewing at 515 events and has taken on a few of his own. While some people go to Hawaii to swim with the dolphins, this guest did that and never left. Welcome to the podcast, Billy Rickards.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Thank you so much, Larry. It's such a pleasure to be here with you today. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Larry 1:29

Yeah, I I really want to dig into that first thing that I mentioned, and that is I haven't had an animal trainer on the show before. So I want to know a little bit more about you swimming with the dolphin story. Can you can you take us back to uh when you graduated from James Madison uh with a psych degree and how that led to you going to Hawaii?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Yes, yeah. So I'll I'll take it just a couple years further back from the that graduation date at James Madison. Um I uh started attending there and was interested in uh sports psychology and performance psychology. I'd always played soccer growing up and uh wanted to stay around sports, and I figured sports psychology and coaching would be something that uh would continue my career that way. And that kind of opened the door to psychology. And then in my junior year of college, I was introduced to a professor who was an ethologist, and I didn't know those existed. Those are animal psychologists. And um, a lot of the work that she was doing was kind of field research, you know, looking at um different animals in the field and more of the science aspect and publishing papers, et cetera, et cetera. Um and through her influence, I became interested in uh working with animals and animal psychology. When I graduated in 1994 from James Madison, I set out my applications to all different types of uh facilities that housed animal zoos, aquariums, research facilities, and got accepted to an internship at uh the University of Hawaii at Manoa. And there at the Kualo Basin Marine Mama Laboratory, they housed four Atlantic bottlenose dolphins and were studying the language and cognitive aspects of those animals. And um, I was 21 years old and wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do, but going to Hawaii and training dolphins for a summer sounded right up my alley. So I took that opportunity and um really haven't looked back living here in Hawaii since then and working with the animals um there at Kualo Basin and then um moved on a little bit and started working for a company called Dolphin Quest, which uh the original facility was over here on the Big Island of Hawaii, and that's what brought me over here to the Big Island.

Larry 3:44

And did you have so you had no training in the training of dolphins at that point?

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Absolutely not. So this internship was actually an introduction to training principles, uh, behaviorism, um, etc. And uh at this facility, research students, graduate students would come up with certain ideas, research projects for the animals, and then us as interns would interface between the research students and the dolphins to be able to um bring those research plans to fruition for the graduate students. So I was just learning about training, but uh in my background in coaching, kind of had a uh a baseline background about behaviorism and changing behavior, and it wasn't completely foreign to me when I jumped up there on the stand and started working with the animals.

Larry 4:36

And and what are some of the like ways in which you do train the animals? And maybe you can compare it to your your coaching as as to you know some similarities or what would be completely new and things that you had to learn about how their behavior is changed through coaching.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Absolutely. So, you know, I guess at one level, the principles of behaviorism are kind of general for animals and humans that we all work towards reinforcement and avoid um negative stimulus or or or punishment. And we wouldn't necessarily punish the dolphins, but they're so incredibly smart, or in Hawaii we say akamai, that they would pick up on the positive reinforcement aspect um quite quickly. And once we developed um a basic mode of communication, which with the dolphins would be through different hand signals, gestures with hands, etc. Um, through principles of behaviorism, we uh would treat the animals for their specific purpose. At the laboratory is to carry out certain research projects. At Dolphin Quest, it was an interactive educational program. So a lot of the training was um working with the animals and just having them be comfortable with different hands, touching them and being in uh around different types of people. Um and certainly uh working with any subject, if it's a dolphin or a human being, you have to understand that specific subject's way of being and the way that they like to relate to the world and try to harmonize with that a little bit. Again, luckily, dolphins um from the behaviorist point of view are incredibly smart and they picked up on the training quite quickly. But they're also very social animals and um really enjoy a lot of connection and um compassion, I would say, and communication between themselves and also the trainer. So developing a personal relationship with each of the dolphins was um a little bit of the focus as well. The same way you would like if if it was a crew and an athlete or a therapist and a client, that relationship and the trust um is something that is the foundation that the the work would build on. And that was really special. Um, being able to uh relate cross species is pretty cool.

Larry 6:56

Yeah, and I I guess it would probably be a a stretch at the beginning to think, oh, crewing an ultraman is related to dolphin training. But you know, you're able to put these two things together, and hopefully we can you know swing back around on that when we're talking about your ultraman career as well in a little bit. Uh but I do have a couple more questions for you still about the dolphins. I'm sorry. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, they're amazing animals far away.

Larry 7:23

Yeah. Um, so like nowadays with um you know, sentient animals in captivity and things like that, there's a lot about the conservation and what should be happening. Um what's happening now in Hawaii these days? Are they trying to get away from it more? Um are do they still see the research benefits? And and what would be your thoughts on those things?

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Sure. So I do have to say I'm quite removed from the animal world at this point. Um I uh moved into I I joke, I moved from training animals to training people. Um and then I stopped working as an animal trainer in in 2000. So it's been about 25 years since I've had my pulse on the industry of of what's current in the animal world. But um while I was involved, um, gosh, a quarter century ago. That sounds crazy to say that. But while I was involved, you know, um it was certainly a mixed, I would say a mixed bag as far as the health and well-being of the animals in captivity. And so much of that would depend on the facility itself and the match of the animal to the facility. So for example, I mentioned that both at Koala Basin and here at the Big Island, uh, at their dolphin quest facilities, um, they would house Atlantic bottlenose dolphins, even though we're out here in the Pacific Ocean. And the reason for that is Atlantic bottlenose dolphins tend to frequent um shallow inlet bays, uh, coastal Florida, Georgia, Alabama, et cetera, um, where Pacific bottlenose dolphins um really don't do well in shallow environments. They need the deep water out here. And so uh with each facility having an uh a species that would do well in that specific environment was of course the number one priority for a lot of facilities. Um when I was working, a lot of facilities were moving towards more of a natural environment type of facility. So at Dolphin Quest, it was a natural beach with uh salt water, not so much a tank or those types of things that you might see at other aquariums and zoos. And I know that was a push uh uh for the industry while I was involved as well. Um and uh there's no right or wrong, but there's lots of views across the board about animals in captivity, and um, you know, that makes a lot of sense, I think, on one angle, and then from the other angle, you have people um looking at such facilities as educational facilities, so that the animals in the wild might receive more uh protection or support once uh someone has an opportunity to experience them firsthand.

Larry 10:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Um overall, from the behavioral point, or I would say the animal trainer side for me, as long as our animals were healthy and happy, and by happy I would mean engaging in their normal, uh expected animal behavior. Um criteria I would say, um a little bit, would be, you know, if um they're continuing to get pregnant and have babies, then um, that's a good indication of health, oftentimes. Um but there is uh a lot of passion around animals uh from a lot of people, deservedly so, because uh a lot of animals are um just amazing and human beings are connected with them. And I can certainly understand uh perspectives from uh multiple points of view around that, depending on where you're coming from.

Larry 11:05

Yeah, and I'm sure you are uh probably a pretty big animal lover too, after having that experience and maybe with other animals anyway.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Oh, absolutely. And in fact, it's one of the reasons I decided to um invest my time and energy into animal psychology, is I have a real affinity for lots of animals, small ones, big ones. And my original idea was that I would be studying, let's say, elephants in Africa and publishing scientific papers about that, but things took a turn in life as they did. Um but you know, I'm sitting here with my dog on the couch and eating chickens outside and birds, and animals are very much a part of my world, absolutely.

Larry 11:43

Yeah. So do you have one particular dolphin story that's like your favorite story or your most memorable story, or just a story that, you know, um that's that's a dolphin story. That's that's why I worked with dolphins.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a a number of them. You know, I was involved in uh a number of um births with uh dolphins in both facilities, and to be able to um be a part of such a sacred experience, um, watching a mom or helping a mom give birth to a calf and watching those first hours is really quite unique. But I think one of the coolest ones that probably displays some of just the uh wicked intelligence of these animals. When I was at Koala Basin and we were uh graduate students, again, we're studying the language and uh cognitive capabilities of these animals. So we had a gestural language of four or five hundred different signs, and it would look like uh kind of like American Sign Language, but maybe it was DSL, dolphin sign language. And um, and um there would be um little things like uh I would ask for a pec wave, right? And so then they'd roll over and wave their pectoral fin and um you know, simple things like that. But then we could string together long sentences. So I could say, take the left ball to the right hoop and take the pipe out of the basket and put the ball in the basket and make a complete sentence that way through the whole language, and they would execute that. Then typically what would happen is I would mess up, and so I would get halfway through and go, oops, I I I got it wrong, and then I would just say erase, and they would erase everything that I had said, and I can start fresh. So it this is a way that we would work with these animals.

Larry 13:34

It's like training an AI. You have to give them the exact prompt that you want.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

You give them the prompt, exactly, and they were really smart enough. And so there was one graduate student that uh came up with a behavior, and that the sign was this, and it was called creative. And creative meant you can do whatever you want. Um, you can improvise a behavior. So, you know, out of the 400 behaviors that we taught, you could just make up a gobbledygook, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever you wanted to do, and that was fine. Or you could pick something from our prearranged list of behaviors, but you couldn't repeat within three. So if I gave you four creative signs, you would have to do A, B, C, and then before you return back to A to be reinforced. So there were two options for creative. Okay. So we'll put that to the side. Sometime later, um, we developed a sign when I would be training two animals together, which was tandem. And so if I had two animals together, and let's say I did tandem spit, the two animals would have to spit water at the same time simultaneously to be reinforced to meet the criteria for that behavior. So then, of course, because we like to have fun, we go, what if we did tandem creative? And um, so we introduced this sign for the first time to our two younger dolphins, and it's a research facility. So we have everything on videotape and there's hydrophones underneath the water um recording the sound. And um the two dolphins, Hiapo and Alele, were there looking at me, and I signed tandem creative, and they kind of looked at me like, what the heck are we supposed to do with that? And then they went underwater and they swam around together, and it was we could hear on the hydrophones there, um, communicating with each other, and then um simultaneously did a simultaneous improvised behavior um in complete synchrony. And um, you know, so you know, we thought, okay, was one leading the other? We slowed down the video, maybe one was following the lead to start, but no, they were in complete synchrony and worked this out together underwater that they would do this uh uh this behavior. Um, and that was really just kind of like wow, like check them out. Uh that's very cool. And there's lots of other instances where their intelligence and sociability was on full display, but I think that was one that stood out for sure.

Larry 16:12

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Yeah.

Billy's pre Tri sports

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah.

Larry 16:16

Well, I I could ask you about dolphins all day, but maybe we should move on to some of this career that you have as well. Um I know that as a as a youngster, you were a little bit more passionate about soccer. Um and you were playing at a pretty high level in that. Tell tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Sure. So, you know, I got started in in soccer as most kids do in their um their youth leagues. And I think it was kindergarten or first grade. I'm out there, pants on a uh sugar cube just running around. And things just kind of progressed. And um I tended to have a little bit of natural ability in just running. And um as a youngster, that that kind of worked out on the soccer field. And um, then as I approached high school, things got a little bit more competitive um and and started trying out for some select teams and an Olympic development teams and uh played goalkeeper, which was um not a very popular position for a lot of folks at the time. So I filled a niche um uh for for a lot of teams and um really just enjoyed um as I do now, being in my body and being an athlete and running uh and some of the competitive nature of sport, and um continued that not so much um a little bit of club soccer in college, but um things took a turn in college as well. But um, that's really I think a lot of where my competitive and natural spirit came and just loving being in my body in that way, growing up playing soccer in in Virginia.

Larry 17:52

Oh, yeah, yeah. And initially, your psychology, you were focusing on sport psychology and coaching. Is that correct? Did that clear? That's right.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

You know, that did. You know, I was um in high school, I was doing some coaching in youth leagues, and then in college, I was coaching a local high school team and um really wanted to, you know, I just enjoy, I still do, I just enjoy sports so much. I wanted to uh keep my lifestyle around that. At that time, there wasn't weren't too many options in the US for domestic soccer. Now there are a lot more. Um, so at the time, anyone that was interested in something like that was looking at a life in Europe, um, you know, potentially, and that wasn't something I was interested in. Um, so I thought maybe coaching would be something that would keep me close to the sport, but also here on the mainland US, um and um pursued that up until I met this animal psychologist, and then things took a little detour.

Larry 18:48

And then after your dolphin training comes to an end, which I can't believe you would end that, um, I went back to school again and and changed again. So, what is it that you do now for

Billy's school/work history

Larry 19:00

work?

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Sure. So um yeah, just a quick story about that. One of my favorite parts of working with the animals at uh the facility here on the Big Island at Dolphin Quest, it's an educational facility. So we would bring guests um of the hotel into the water and they would pay for this experience to be able to learn a touch the dolphin and learn about the dolphin. It wasn't necessarily a show, but more of an educational thing, and we can show them their blowhole and they could feel their belly button, etc. And one of my favorite parts was connecting with the guests and um, you know, just to be able to make a really strong connection with the guests and have them have a wonderful experience with the animals. And I've always enjoyed kind of being a people person that way. And I had one guest that really kind of planted the seed, and we had created a good connection. He was a little bit older. And he said, uh, so what are you gonna do after this? And I thought he meant like after my shift. I was like, Well, I'll probably go home. And no, he goes, No, no, like after dolphin training. I never really thought I was gonna do something after dolphin training, same as you. Like, why would I change this? This is great. He goes, dude, you're not gonna be like a 50-year-old dolphin trainer. Think about it. I was like, Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you don't see 50-year-old dolphin trainers, right? And um, so in in my background, background in psychology, I I thought about, you know, um, my propensity to, you know, I love helping and uh being of assistance. And I thought, well, this would be a great time to uh take an opportunity to go back to school. So I went to graduate school for professional counseling, and I have a license, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist now. And uh I've been in private practice up here in Waimea for uh 22, 23 years now in my my office serving uh families and couples and individuals in different aspects of their life and uh mental health.

Larry 20:46

Yeah, that's excellent. And when you are going through all of this schooling and changing of jobs and things like that, when when did you start the family? Where does that lead into your story?

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yes, yes. So one of the reasons I stayed in Hawaii, my uh wife Susan is born and raised on Oahu. And um yeah, in 1994, when I was there in the summer, I uh fell in love with her, and uh she was a water person, and I fell in love with the ocean and fell in love with surfing, and it just made sense for me to stick around a little bit longer than just the summer. Um, so her and I got to know each other in 1994, and uh I was in my master's program in uh 2000, and um we Susan and I got married in 2000, and we had our first child in 2003. Our children are now 21 and 18, and um uh yeah, so that can that just kind of naturally uh developed between Susan and I and continues.

Larry 21:54

And and when

Intro to Triathlon

Larry 21:55

did you start first getting involved in triathlon? I guess being there on the big island, you're gonna See it. Um, when did you first start getting involved?

SPEAKER_03 22:03

You know, when I first saw it, Larry, excuse my language, but I was like, fucking no way. Like, that's crazy. Not happening. In fact, I had a roommate that did the Iron Man in, I think it was 2006, and he was out training all the time. I'm like, this guy has lost his marbles. Like, what are you doing? Well, and for me at that time, I was a religious surfer. I was surfing every single day. I love being in the water. I loved being in the ocean and connecting with the ocean and the swells. And um, that was really my hobby and my passion is uh being in the water and surfing. And I was doing, I was surfing every day uh or as often as I could up until about 2012. I wasn't interested in triathlon at all. Running was terrible. Oh my God, why would someone run just a run? And uh, you know, you're gonna so I had a surfing buddy of mine said, Hey, sometimes we go to the beach and we swim. And I'm like, like without a surfboard, like that's stupid. Like he goes, yeah, just bring goggles and we'll just go swimming. And I was always kind of a yes guy. I was like, okay, I'll guess I'll join up with you and go swimming. And, you know, not interested in biking, not interested in running, but I went out and I swam and um wasn't the greatest, but I didn't suck, I think, because a lot of the surfing and ocean experience and the strength that you develop from surfing and paddling and that kind of thing. And so that tended to work out well. And then after joining those guys for their weekly swim once a week for a little bit, another person in the group said, Hey, there's this uh there's this triathlon. It's called the Lava Man. It's an Olympic distance triathlon here on the island. It's uh really popular event, it's a great event. Um some of us are gonna sign up and do this this triathlon. You're crazy. I know what that is. That's like the swimming and the biking and the running. And then they goaded me into it. And um, so so I just kind of signed up on a whim, and um, I don't think I really trained. And I borrowed a road bike and I had my baggy shorts and my baggy top. And, you know, I'm out there just kind of winging it. And um the standout moment for me, so it's a 10K run at the end of this Olympic distance triathlon. And I was toasted, Larry. Like I was done, D-U-M done by the time I got to this run. Um, just blown up. And uh I don't I've since that time I've done so many events, and you know all the pictures that come, and I hardly save any pictures, but one picture I save was of me at this event, and it was probably like mile three, and I'm walking and I'm just blown up. My my face is beat red, my lips are hanging down, I'm just uh, you know, death marching this thing, this 10K Olympic distance run. And um it was so hard. I remember thinking, oh, this is gonna be an awesome challenge trying to figure this out. And um, so I blew up that picture and I told myself I'm never gonna be that guy again. And um, that's what kind of drew me to triathlon that first event and getting involved that way in a challenge of trying to understand my body more and push my body more to the next level and and uh create the relationship, a better relationship with each one of the disciplines as well, the swimming, biking, and running. And so that just kind of took its natural evolution through through the paces um being here.

Larry 25:35

Yeah, as as it does with most people, a little bit longer, a little bit longer, a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah. Hey, what's the next scary thing, right? And so I went back the next year and I did the Olympic distance and I actually trained and had the right, you know, proper uh uh attire to you know not lose 20 minutes on the bike. Um and um so then it was like, oh, the half Iron Man. There's a Honu 70.3 Iron Man Hawaii out here. And it's a pretty challenging and uh pretty challenging course, especially to run on the golf course. And uh, but and that was the next Everest. And then after that, it was oh my gosh, the Iron Man. I remember in 2006, my stupid buddy doing that, maybe, and that just seemed like beyond. Like, if I ever do that, that's gonna be it. I'm done. And then you know how it goes, and just kind of keeps on going, keeps on going. Yeah.

Larry 26:26

Well, if if I count it correctly, you've done five of the uh Iron Man World Championships, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 26:32

That's correct.

Larry 26:33

Yeah, but I understand that it's one of the HANU races that was kind of your most memorable. Can can you tell us a little bit about that race?

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Sure. So there's um, you know, for the record, I am not a fast athlete. When someone hears five times Kona, they think, wow, you know, he's qualified. But there is a backdoor entry here being a resident and um a lottery system that they would have. So um there uh just to clear the record, some people you don't have to qualify it.

Larry 27:04

You were at the championship. You have a ranking that says you're this number in the world.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Yeah. Um uh gosh, this must have been 2017, 2018,

Honu 70.3 - Only DNF

SPEAKER_03 27:20

the 70.3. Um so uh for the 70.3, um the Honu, Hawaii, I uh I've done this swim. It was at Hapuna Beach State Park, and I'm running up out of the water and transitioning out of my swim gear into my bike gear. Um, I had mechanical shifting on my bike, and I noticed that my uh right lever was uh pushed all the way down. It must have been knocked in in transition. And uh I thought to myself, I gotta fix that before I jump on the bike. Um and I pull my bike out and I start running up to the mount line. And um what ended up happening is I I clipped in and uh started accelerating away, and um, I didn't change that shifter. And so my chain had slipped from the big ring in the back all the way to the small ring when I first started pedaling, which freewheeled the pedals. And the second pedal came and blasted the back of my right calf and cut it completely, cut it completely open. I've never been shot before, but I thought when it first hit, man, this must feel like it like when you get shot. It was pretty significant. And um, my calf was was kind of filleted open. And at the time I could look down and kind of see the Achilles moving a little bit, blood was pouring out. And but man, I I really messed myself up here pretty good at this uh this transition. But around the transition area, as it is in a lot of places, it was really hectic, people getting on their bike, all kinds of stuff. And I thought I just get to get out of this area and then assess the situation. And so the best way for me to get out of the area was to get on my bike and start riding. And so I just kind of figured I'd take a few pedal strokes up the road and then pull off. And I start taking a few of these pedal strokes, and I realized like, well, I'm bleeding, but this is working. Like I'm actually moving forward and it's working. So moving forward is the goal. Let's just keep moving forward. And um, so then I continued to bleed and pedal, and I thought, okay, I'm gonna pull off if I start to feel a little shock, start to feel weird. But for the time being, things are still working along pretty well. And uh, so I just got up onto the course and got myself down the arrow and started riding. And I rode the uh the full 56 miles with this gaping wound in my leg and looking down and seeing the Achilles and the comments I was getting from people that uh were passing me or I was passing were quite hilarious, um giving me updates about how gnarly the leg looked. Um and I had this wild idea, and I thought, well, this is pretty cool. Like I can I like handling things, and um, this is a fun thing to handle. And I was managing it really well. I ended up PRing the bike course, maybe it was the uh the adrenaline at that time, and um and then I thought, huh, this would be something if I could um finish this half marathon and complete the whole thing with this gaping wound in my leg. And uh so as I started approaching T2, I was really standing up and giving it and trying to figure out like would my leg be able to take the pressure of running? And it felt okay, Larry. And so I thought, okay, well, maybe this will work. And so I popped off the bike and started uh my very first step. I collapsed. It wasn't the calf was not happening for the run. So that that ended up being my only DNF of of my career um because of that medical situation. But yeah, that was quite notable, leaving a little bit of my DNA on the uh the bike course as I completed at 70.3.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

That was a good one.

Larry 31:04

That's yeah. Uh talk about fighting through the uh adversity of our race. That's that's a good one. Leaving half half muscle hanging out.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

You know, it's it's it's just feelings at the end of the day, right? So you just push off.

How to support the Podcast

SPEAKER_03 31:19

Yeah.

Larry 31:20

Hello, listener. I love getting your feedback and suggestions for the podcast. Keep them coming at 515ultraman at gmail.com. For those that want to help me promote the show, I suggest that you tell a friend to listen too. Word of mouth is a great way for podcasts to get into it. And if you don't mind publishing your feelings, a free way to support the show is by leaving a five-star rating and review on your podcast app. It's a chance to tell me what you love about the show, and it helps others discover it too. Finally, if you're so inclined, you can show your appreciation for my work by clicking the support link at the bottom of the show notes to go to my Buy Me a Coffee page. Thanks for all of your feedback and support. Now back to the show.

Finding Ultra

Larry 32:16

So you're you're doing these races now, now you're part of the group, you're you're addicted to the triathlon life. Um who is it or what was it that got you involved in the Ultraman? Was there a certain person who said, okay, well, now you gotta come try this, or was it just that you were seeing it anyway?

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah, you know, I was really unfamiliar with Ultraman. It was um at the time, very uh, at least for me, it seemed like it was very underground. So um but there was uh an athlete out here named Susan Smith, who her and I were friends, and we were training buddies, and we had trained together uh preparing for Kona, and she had completed Ultraman Hawaii, and I forget the year. Um, and she was telling me about it, and I thought, well, that's crazy. And she was great training partners with Wendy Minor, who's uh a wonderful woman and um someone who's completed the race a a number of times, and I knew Wendy to be a uh a badass, and Susa was a badass. I was like, well, huh? Well, maybe this is what the next level is. And um they were the ones that really planted the seed for me.

Larry 33:29

Yeah. And then so did you start off by crewing before you jumped into the race, I assume? Like what was your first crew experience?

SPEAKER_03 33:38

I did. My um I decided to put my name in the ring for crewing in 2015. And um at that time, Jane, um, Cheryl and Dave uh assigned me to an athlete Peter Lipinski, I think from your neck of the woods, Larry.

Larry 33:56

Yeah, he's from the Okanagan area. Yeah, Peter's a great guy. Him and his wife are the the some of the happiest people you will ever meet.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

They were my first uh experience crewing, and I only jumped in for day three. They didn't need me for day one and two, but I was uh I paced Peter um for a good portion of the the course on day three and got to know him very well and his family, and they were just a wonderful group of people. And through that experience, also got to know the ultraman Ohana um a little bit more intimately, and uh I think I've crewed every year since then.

Larry 34:31

And I know that a couple um people that you've crewed for have been on the show as well. Um you crewed for Shangri-La Rendon, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 34:42

That's correct. That's correct.

Larry 34:44

She was on my she was on the podcast in season three, episode three, and uh recently on season six and episode two when we had the female round table. And uh I don't know if you've I don't know if you know about this, but um she recently released a book. Oh excellent.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Yes, yes, there's a lot of stories there. I'm I'm glad that she was able to put that together. There's a lot of great stories uh that she holds for sure.

Larry 35:10

Yeah. And then so where did you do your first Ultraman race then? Do you came over to the to the mainland for your first race?

SPEAKER_03 35:17

I did. I did Ultraman, so my Ultraman year was 2019 where I started. I did Ultraman Florida in February of 2019 and qualified there for Hawaii in October of 2019.

Larry 35:33

Uh, who who did you have on your crew in Florida?

SPEAKER_03 35:36

In Florida, I was working with a coach. Um, his name is Chris Haig. Um, he's hasn't really been much around the Ultraman community, but I was introduced to him through some Iron Man training and he continued my Ultraman training. So um it was him and his fiance at the time that came and crewed me. Um just a crew of two. Yeah. In Florida. Yeah.

Larry 35:59

And then back on the island, um, did you get local crew and friends and family for for that one?

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah. So back on the island, man, that was um such a special race uh being uh a resident here and being able to encircle the island. I think about making a lay around the island on Thanksgiving Day. Um, and it was really, really poignant weekend. Um, and understanding that I had uh my wife and my closest friends, and we call them our chosen family. These are uh people that I trained dolphins with back in the uh the late 90s. And um we be we became very close. It was it probably could have been a uh a reality TV show, the house that we all lived in, dolphin dolphin training and living together. And we called ourselves the happy home, and um it was kind of like a chosen family for a younger folks. So I had a number of our happy home group uh join the the crew as well, and uh we we were team happy.

Larry 36:59

Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Um I I my understanding of your race though is that maybe your professional work had to play a role in getting you to the finish line on that one. Maybe being team happy, but you did have to face some adversities along the way. Can you tell us a little bit about how your world championship went?

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Oh, sure. You know, I think anyone that is involved with this race faces adversity at some point, um, either due to the physicality of it or the conditions, etc. Um, that weekend was especially weathery on the big island. I think there was a high wind warning uh day one, day two, which had winds up to 50, 60 mile an hour gusts and torrential rain, especially on the Hamakua side. The uh volcano is always typically kind of wet, um, but it was especially wet from Hilo up through Waimea. And um during that time, with all the debris running off the side of the road, I ended up with four flat tires. Um and uh my crew had to leave me, go back into Hilo, pick up some new tubes while I'm riding in the rain. There was a lot of situations where keeping your head on straight and having a positive outlook, I think was really important. It would be really easy to fall into a negative mindset. And every every athlete's a little bit different, but for me, I tend to do much better when I race happy and optimistic. And so really just being aware of the thoughts and feelings that would come in during those times of frustration I think really helped along the way. Um, I did have some mechanical issues also on the bike, in addition to the four flat tires. My headset was a little bit loose, and so the the stability and the steering wasn't the greatest, and there's really not a whole lot I could do about that, and that was a little bit sketchy in the high wind. Um, so you know, really being able to stay focused and um present and not allowing the mind to shift off into fear or uh pessimism. Um it was on high display, I think, on that day too.

Larry 39:07

Yeah. And and you also challenged yourself to to pick up some speed on the on the course as well. I uh I read in one of your posts.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

I think that was the first year they had changed the course. It would typically go up over the Kohala Mountains. And I think 2019 was the first year where instead of taking that right turn up over the Kohalas, we take a left and go down Kauai High Hill. And uh it's a really fast ascent, um, even on a still day, but on this high wind day and getting buffeted by the 50 mile an hour winds from it was about four o'clock, so about a side back wind that was coming. Um yeah, I think I hit some all-time max speeds um going down that hill and was reminding myself, you know, Billy, remember cars can take this at 45 to 50 miles an hour. They're not gonna fly off the side. You could probably do the same on the bike, and it was uh it was uh a little bit hairy, but fun all at the same time. Yeah.

Larry 40:07

And and do you still go down that hill and and challenge yourself to try and reach those speeds?

SPEAKER_03 40:13

Um every now and then, but not on such a windy day, that's for sure.

Larry 40:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Yeah.

Larry 40:19

Well, let's talk a

Crewing experiences and tips

Larry 40:20

little bit more about some of your crewing experience because I know for you that's that's kind of where your joy is as well, is in the crewing and and meeting the people and helping to get people to the finish lines. So as we said earlier, most recently, you were working with Carrie at the Ultraman Hawaii, and you got to crew with Shane Duffy for that one. Um Trust L plan shirt today for our interview. Um I got to meet Shane and Carrie at at Arizona and and you. Um I got something I'm gonna play for you here from uh from your experience uh in Hawaii. So uh just one second.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

What's up, people? We've got about uh 3.15 into the run. We're just getting off a Kunapule Highway, which is the uh hill down from Havi, making our way down into Kauai High. Uh in just about a mile, we'll be climbing out of Kauai High and taking a right turn onto the Queen Kahaumanu Highway. Easy to say. And uh looking to hit that marathon mark here in another hour and a half, two hours maybe. And uh feeling good, cooling is in effect, starting to heat up. Send the good vibes.

Larry 41:43

So that that that's from a video that was sent out on a little WhatsApp chat. Uh, thanks for keeping us up to date, all of us that were watching from afar. Um obviously you're having fun there. You you're uh Hawaiian is great. I would never be able to say any of those names. And um at the end there, you talk about cooling is in effect. Um, how hot was it this year? And not even just this year. How important do you take cooling the athlete down at any of these races when when you're crewing? Because people are always listening for the for the tips on on this podcast. So this is your opportunity to share some of your crewing wisdom about uh the importance of keeping your athlete cool.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Oh, sure. You know, it is um even on the cooler days in Hawaii, which would be windier days that would blow some of the clouds over, you don't get the direct sun, it's still really hot out there. You're in the middle of the lava fields. This weekend was especially hot. The for day one and day two, it was kind of nice because we didn't have a lot of wind. So it made for some maybe some faster bike splits, definitely some more comfortable bike riding for the people. But what it did mean for day three is that there is hardly any cloud cover. I call it microwave sun and um radiating off the pavement and through the lava fields. And um, you know, as an athlete, running 52 miles is always going to be uncomfortable. But we try to minimize that discomfort as much as possible. And um, you know, as athletes, we know that you know, the higher the heat, the higher our heart rate, the harder things can be for digestion, nutrition, and just your overall experience. So on days like this, I consider as a crew, I consider uh cooling uh to be just as important or even more important as the other aspects of crewing, which are typically hydration and nutrition, and some of the mental game as well. So every single stop, um, our athlete was doing a uh a nine minute run, one minute walk protocol. And at every one of these one minute, Walks, we would time it perfectly, or try to so that she would be walking and the van would be stopped. And um it's constant water, um, ice. We um uh props to Shane Duffy. We've there's multiple, multiple iterations of trying to get ice around the back of your neck. Um, some people um I stole an idea from another athlete uh out here, Stephen Keller. He had created these bandanas with a little pocket inside, and you can put the ice in the pocket and then wrap the bandana. That was one um solution we used. Uh the one that worked actually a little bit better, uh, Shane Duffy, um, through his experience, he's had lots and lots of experience as an athlete, came up with just these long uh cloth tubes, and you tie one end, um, and so you make a knot, and then you just dump the ice in and you tie the other end. So it turns out to be a little package of ice. But then the the strings are a little bit longer than the bandana, and that would allow the athlete to anchor for her, she could anchor it into her straps and keep that really tight there. So we would be replacing that ice at every walk, would be cooling her off, um, you know, consistently through the mouth and on top of her head and keeping that ice going. As an athlete, number one, it just feels wonderful to have something cool on your body when you're out there in the heat. Um, and I can only imagine that it would help with the overall heart rate and um experience and perceived exertion as um we're working out there. But to this day, I do have to say I want to give credit to Gary Wang. Now, some people may know Gary Wang as the person as I think he's done 20 Ultraman events consecutively. He's in um just this year was nominated into the Ultraman Hall of Fame. Just a wonderful man, incredible athlete, not just in Ultraman, but across the board. And I saw him one year, I forget one year, I was out here crewing, and he had a cooler full of just like pretty big beach towels that were submersed in icy cold water. And every time that he would stop, he would just wrap that icy cold towel around him like a cape.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

And I thought, wow, that looks a little excessive, but I tried it one day. Oh, it is like heaven when you're a little hot. And um, and that's something that I used as an athlete that I stole from Gary. Just to have something big on your back and cooling is oh man, it's such a relief after running through the heat.

Larry 46:43

Yeah. And of course, Carrie Mandel became the third woman finisher at the race because we know that the first finisher and the second finisher of the race overall were both women. Uh and that was Jennanette and Michelle Vesterby. How how was it at the race for you to see that happen as well?

SPEAKER_03 47:04

Well, it's never happened before, Larry, to have um women be, you know, top one and two. And um, I think it really just speaks to those two women specifically, but also to the culture that we're kind of seeing in sport now, where at least in America, we're starting to see a lot more um recognition and popularity in women in sport overall. And I think it was just perfect timing to be able to display what's possible um for women here in the Ultraman. Um, I didn't see much of them because they were way far out in front.

Larry 47:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

I'm I'm following them like everyone else is by social media. Um, but you know, we did have a chance to connect before and after, or mostly before. And uh it was just really impressive to watch them. You know, prior to that, Dee Dee Griesbauer had uh set the record out here for Ultraman, and she kind of set the bar, um, you know, kind of uh banking on the shoulders of Hillary Bisquet and some other amazing women that have uh participated out here. But you know, Jen and Michelle this year really took it to the next level. That was that was awesome to see. I was really stoked to see that.

Larry 48:18

Yeah. Um, and and they were on a previous podcast as well about um I had them on before the race, and then again after the race to get their their thoughts, as well as Steve and Gary with their uh Ultraman Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

Yeah, yeah, excellent.

Larry 48:36

And then uh the year previous uh in Hawaii, you were crewing for Mary Latza. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

That's right. That's right.

Larry 48:44

So so Mary and Randy are probably pretty well known, especially around the Florida and Arizona ohana. Um you gotta have a you gotta have a story from from Mary and Randy for us.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

Oh boy, you know, they're um for people that know them, um they're just wonderful human beings, a lot of humor. Um and I I think that the thing that you know we all know Randy and his um, which how do I say it politely, his way of being. Love you, Randy. Um and and his costumes, and he's just a great guy, right? Uh a lot of um, I was really impressed actually by Randy, not that I shouldn't have been, but his local knowledge and memory about places and uh here on the big island is pretty awesome. Like uh he knows what he's talking about out here. Um, but I think the thing that, you know, and I was also on crew there with it was me, Randy, and Cynthia Bartas, who was an Ultraman uh finisher, and um, she also completed the epic event out here uh recently. And so it was the three of us. Um and I think the thing that really stood out to me was uh sorry, Randy, but just watching how much Mary is in charge. Um Mary's a wonderful, a wonderful woman and a I would say a beast of an athlete. And when she's ready to get stuff done, she's ready to get stuff done. And to watch her put Randy in his place a little bit was uh kind of cool to see.

Larry 50:22

Yeah. Oh, that's good. Um we we had talked previously about uh meeting up with Carrie and Shane at Ultraman Arizona, and at that time you were crewing for Vedant. Um young young Indian man. Um I first met him um at the Ultra 520K, the last one that they did here in Canada. Because he he stayed on. The the he did came over and did the Ultraman Canada, uh, unfortunately was not well prepared for that race and didn't even have a crew on the day that he arrived. Um he wasn't able to finish that race, but he stayed on for the weekend after and hung out with the Ultra 520K crew as well. And I was uh helping out with that race and got to know him quite well during that time. So when I saw you guys working together in Arizona, I was like, oh, he's got someone who's gonna get him to the finish line, someone who knows what's going on. Um I I got another little video for you here. Uh let's check this one out. This is uh heading up to the to the top of the mountain of the is it unnecessary hill? Um where he does a big out and back.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Um yes, I I think that that that's his nickname at this point. Yeah.

Larry 51:37

Yeah, yeah. So um here's here's there's not a lot of vocals in this clip, but uh here here's this is more for you uh with with Ved. And he's doing that that walk that you were saying you were doing on that 10k earlier.

SPEAKER_05 51:52

This guy waiting for you. Who's this guy waiting for you?

Larry 52:02

Now we're talking. Oh, let's go, man. One foot in front of the other. Let's go, let's go. You got it. Come on, man. Let's go. So so everybody there was trying to give him a low five because he couldn't lift his arm and and and get him up that hill. I know you were a big part of him getting to the finish line in Arizona. Tell me, tell me about your time with Ben.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

Well, you know, he was so motivated to finish this race. Um, and I was really impressed by that from the very beginning, before the race had even started, his preparation in India and the meticulous nature that he went about this, I think, from his experience in Ultraman Canada, really wanting to uh do it a little bit one better. Um the the crew was myself and his two parents, who were very um wonderful people. Of course, they love their son tremendously, but a little bit inexperienced when it came to crewing.

Larry 53:08

Um and that's that's being very polite. They they have no idea of what goes on in these events for for their son.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

No, no, no. And um, you know, there is, I think there's such an advantage um having as an athlete having done it, knowing kind of mentally and physically what you're going through. Um, I think as a crew member, to have that really helps when your athlete starts to experience the natural suffering of doing a long event like this. Um, but that that day three was I've done a lot compared to other people, not a lot of races. I've done a uh a good amount of races. I have a lot of I call them me medals on the wall. Um, I think crewing Vedant was one of the most memorable race experiences I've ever had. Um his day three was brutal. Um, he was doing quite well through about mile 20, and then the wheel started to fall off. Um we're we're dealing with cramping, we were dealing with a lot of mental um difficulty. Um, we're cramping, we're crying. I was constantly looking at the watch, looking at the time, trying to assess what our pace needed to be, trying to work a run-walk strategy. Well, essentially um crewing by myself. So I would I would park the car, um, run back to Ved, pace with him up to the car, and then kind of leapfrog myself that way. And um that worked for a period of time until I realized we needed someone by his side consistently. So I actually called in to Jen and the folks at the finish line and asked for some help. And uh Memo was able to come out and crew with me for the last piece. Without that, I'm not sure that Ved would have finished because he really did need someone by his side consistently, kind of talking them off the ledge of quitting. Um, you know, we get to that place in our mind and the body just tells the brain we're done. And he was definitely done at that point. Um, but I knew that if we kept a um brisk walk that we could finish with a little jogging added in, and that's what we did. And I think he finished with about 15 minutes to spare. Certainly with Memo's help driving the van and other um staff and um volunteers helping out along the way as well. That guy was thorough that guy was thoroughly cooked during that run for sure.

Larry 55:43

Yeah, yeah, you definitely did a spectacular job there uh getting him to the finish line. And and it was such an emotional finish line for everybody that was there. Uh I've got some great photos of that one. It was it was a great, great finish.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

Yeah, thank you. I I felt very honored and blessed to have that opportunity to to be with him and and to be with his family. And yeah, they're they're great folks. You know, one funny story about his dad there, you know, they just as a dad, they love your kids so much. And um out of all the athletes I've crewed, I think he was the deepest in the pain cave by far. And you know, just just scraping along during during the day, again, getting it done. And we're probably about mile 40. And dad jumps out of the car and he's all happy and he goes, He's doing great. He's doing a great job right now. I'm thinking to myself, we are so far from great at this point. Like we're in like barely survival mode, and I was just had a chuckle at the whole thing. I was like, Yeah, we're doing great. You got it. Yeah.

Larry 56:48

Well, in that clip that I played, you did still look surprisingly fresh for uh, you know, as far as we were into day three. So you you did a good job of keeping yourself going too.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

Thank you. Thank you again. I I I work really well with uh optimism and positivity, and that's kind of how I I move through my daily life, so it's not hard for me to get to that spot. Um, and especially when on those days when you realize the

How Ultra changes you

SPEAKER_03 57:15

challenge ahead of you, it's uh yeah, that's the mission.

Larry 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

Yeah.

Larry 57:19

Well, well, taking all these experiences into account, how how do you think competing or participating, crewing in around the Ultraman community has you know changed your life or kind of made you who you are or anything like that? Like it changes everybody. What what's it done for you, do you think?

SPEAKER_03 57:41

Absolutely. I think uh that's a great question, Larry. Thank you. I think uh the first two things that pop into my mind are number one is ohana or the sense of family. And you know, we say things in life, even with best friends, of like hey, I got you. You like I'm always here for you. Um, you know, you can rely on me, and and that that's some of the aspects of best friendship. Uh, but when you get, as you know, when you get into these events, like those words actually mean something and it's real. And I've through the events been able to meet so many people that are willing to show up and are ready to show up at the drop of a hat. And that not just through the event, but in life, right? Yeah, I know now I can call 10 people that I've known through the Ultraman Ohana and say, hey, I'm struggling, I need help, and they'd be there for me immediately. And that sense of connection in Hawaii, we call it kuliana or a responsibility, and it's a responsibility, I think, to show up in the best way for our family. Um I've always enjoyed that, but to have a group that solidifies that and brings that into action, and then that is transferable into other relationships when the event is finished is a game changer. You know, we need people in our life, I think, that we know are gonna show up, that we when I raise my hand, someone's gonna be there. And um, that has absolutely been an outcome of participating in these ultraman events as an athlete and crew, is creating these bonds and these friendships. And it's it's one of the main reasons that I'd love to come back because I don't get to see these crazy people all the time. And it's like a huge family reunion. And it it reminds me, I think, of I think what the best of humanity can be, you know, that it would, you know, here in in just our local communities, you know, when we look at our neighbors or even a stranger as an athlete and we're ready to show up for them, and um, without judgment, you know, without a second thought, um, I think it opens up some of the best of of who we are as human beings. And Ultraman has allowed that to be reinforced and percolate more widely for me. Well, I'm extremely thankful for that. Um, and then second is just the for me personally, the physical challenge of staying healthy. Um, you know, I got some white hair going on, I'm 52, and um, you know, looking forward to continuing to see what this body can do until it can't anymore. And this is an opportunity just in the day-to-day training, if you're training for a an Ultraman event or an ultra event, um, to be able to test the the mind and body's capabilities. And this platform uh allows for that. And I'm so thankful for that also. Otherwise, I'd just be out there doing it by myself, and that would look even more crazy.

Larry 1:00:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:53

Yeah.

Larry 1:00:54

Uh well, Billy, thank you very much for taking the time to come and tell us about some of your experiences and especially about the dolphins. And uh, you know, it's been great catching up with you again and and hearing these stories. And and you know, we share many of the same friends now, so I'm sure we'll be crossing paths again.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

Absolutely, Larry. It's been such a pleasure to to have the opportunity to sit and talk with you. I've been a long time listener, and um, it's a real treat to be here and uh share these experiences and look forward to much more, many more as we move forward.

Larry 1:01:31

Oh, great. Thanks for listening. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Of course.

Mary Jo 1:01:34

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